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Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'. view story

41 votes

Submitted by DerivativeRe about 1 month ago

Dr. Ahmad Al-Mub'i, a Saudi Marriage Officiant: It Is Allowed to Marry a Girl at the Age of One, If Sex Is postponed. The Prophet Muhammad, Whose Model We Follow, Married 'Aisha When She Was Six and Had Sex with Her When She Was Nine :

  1. That is just crazy. These girls are forced to say goodbye to their childhood.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  2. @ DerivateRe,

    Stooped down to the level of defaming others' religion now have you?

    You rant about the following "hateful post" http://www.mixx.com/stories/1067306/republican_jewish_official_is_lying_about_obama_to_reporters even though it clearly isn't, and then you actually post a true hateful, decietful, bigotted post??

    You're pretty pathetic aren't you. Your credibility has reached an all time low.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  3. Regarding the topic....it is arranged marriage, I don't agree with it but I respect other cultures. As for the age of consent well you respect other cultures and their wishes but you hold yourself to your own values and certainly some of those ages in the article seem MUCH too low.

    But then something drew my attention. It seemed like an attack on the Muslim prophet - an approach often used saying that Alisha married Mohammad (pbuh - out of respect for Zecchetti) and consummated at the age of nine.......only that one is slightly open for debate. Some scholars think she was as old as 18 when she married Mohammad. In which case, "GO MO!". But anyway I was piqued.....but then the video kicked into the article as I read it; and lo' what did I see....

    Don't buy into it people...it might have been put on LiveLeak but it is Memri article.

    Short video, cool music, Memri exposé:

    ►http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OX16mQjKhw

    "My problem with Memri is that it poses as a research institute when it's basically a propaganda operation.....MEMRI's website does not mention you [Carmon] or your work for Israeli intelligence."
    Middle East Editor for the UK's Guardian Newspaper addressing Yigal Carmon, president of Memri
    •http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/28/israel2

    "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials" - Juan Cole, Professor of Modern Middle East History, University of Michigan
    and President of Global American Institute
    •http://www.juancole.com/2004/11/bin-ladens-audio-threat-to-states.html

    "[Memri] does not present a balanced or complete picture of the Arab print media.... Quotes are selected to portray Arabs as preaching hatred against Jews and westerners, praising violence and refusing any peaceful settlement of the Palestinian issue."
    William Rugh, former U.S. ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and Yemen
    •http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/28/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker

    "outright distortion"
    Ken Livingstone, former British MP and former Mayor of London
    •http://www.london.gov.uk/news/docs/qaradawi_dossier.pdf
    •http://mondediplo.com/2005/10/15propaganda

    • (0 Kudos received)

  4. @Zecchetti

    I made the submission. Your comments should be directed at the Saudis.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  5. @SilentJay74

    1 is starting a bit young eh?

    • (0 Kudos received)

  6. @Albionshores

    Cheers for enlightening the crowd here, and I'd like to add to it.

    The Prophet's marriage to Aisha was only consummate once she had reached puberty. He had plenty of enemies of his time who would ridicule him for a variety of things out of hatred and animosity but none ever mentioned his marriage to Aisha as they saw nothing wrong with it. It was the norm at the time to marry as soon as puberty is reached. As a matter of fact, even in our times many people become sexually active when they reach puberty even if their only in high school.

    To add to that, there are many parts of the world even today where life expectancy doesn't even exceed 45. So what, would you expect them to marry and procreate at 20?

    And it was not his only marriage. He had married women of a variety of ages including a 71 year old woman. Marriage at that time was more than just a relationship between man and woman. It was seen as protection and providing a family, and fostered connections between tribes.

    So DerivativeRe to make this post without letting the whole truth be known - that is distortion and can only be done as a result of hatred and bigotry. Something he had a rant about here: http://www.mixx.com/stories/1067306/republican_jewish_official_is_lying_about_obama_to_reporters

    • (0 Kudos received)

  7. @DerivativeRe

    Or we could direct it to Memri, the source of this submission.

    Enough said.

    • (0 Kudos received)
    • Albionshores Albionshores
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    In fact right next to it in the related articles on LiveLeak is a Muslim study into Alisha's age.
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=452_1175884249

    Betrothed at around 10.
    Married around 15.
    There is even a hadith which says consumated around 3 years after marriage....

    that is where the 18 claim will be then. Could have been 18, could have been younger...and don't forget this is 1300 years ago. If you think Romeo and Juliet is a romantic story remind yourselves that 500 years ago Romeo and Juliet as young lovers would have been in their VERY early teens. As was the culture.

    What we have here is a MEMRI article with a MEMRI agenda. Take one persons view from a different culture; twist, manipulate, reword and then portray as though it is representative of the whole. Check out the comments on LiveLeak the ones with Nationalistic and Spartan Avatars. That is another clue. Spartan and Nordic symbology is commonly used by White Extremists in Europe. It relates to the crusades and the Greek Persian wars i.e. fighting what they perceive as an Arabic/Persian invasion AND utter bullshit to boot!!!

    Interestingly the one person who comments questioning the accuracy of the video (EU avatar) saying,
    "This is bullshit u cant marry a girl under puberty age in Islam", then he was the only one who got buried with -47 votes.

    THE SUBMISSION IS ANTI-ISLAM MEMRI PROPAGANDA PUT ONTO LIVELEAK AND ADOPTED BY EXTREMISTS.

    It has now found its unfortunate way onto Mixx again. It is not the first Memri article to do so.
    Think FOX but at least with FOX, or with another media agency you know what it is. Memri is worse - much worse.....it hides what it really does.

    That video Memri video again just in case you missed it the first time:

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7OX16mQjKhw

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  9. I am just sayin 1 is to young. I also do not agree with arranged marriage. I am not bashing culture, but I am bashing the fact that these girls (some of them) will not get the chance to chose their own husbands.

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  10. @SilentJay74
    I completely agree. One is much too young but then in some cultures the marriage can even be agreed in concept before the child is conceived!!!! Certainly with my upbringing and culture the idea of somebody making any decision like that for me boils my brain.

    That said this is a false dilemma. A Memri source posted by those with dubious intention. The content of the submission has all the hall marks of a forgery.

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  11. @Albionshores

    This video you gave the link to is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OX16mQjKhw

    I somehow had a disturbing feeling that MEMRI was a zionist propaganda unit, but that video confirmed it. Cheers. Hope other take note! Zionists units such as MEMRI, and their supporters such as DerivativeRe, are the ones who are responsible for spreading hatred, intolerance, bigotry which leads to wars and conflicts.

    No to war! No to conflict!

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  12. @SilentJay74

    Personally, I'd get someone who knows Arabic to translate that video from scratch.

    • (0 Kudos received)
    • Albionshores Albionshores
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @Zecchetti
    Y'up its great isn't it. I think it is only fair to point out that Zionism, or neo-zionism, is a political agenda and not representative of Israel or Israelis; just as neo-cons are not representative of America or Americans.

    In fact if you thought the Bush Administration was unpopular as a president....the Israeli PM Olmert recently had a national poll which gave him an approval rating of 3%

    Couldn't agree more to the last bit though.
    No to all war and conflict. And no to the agenda that tries to create and widen divides instead of bringing people together.

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    • Zecchetti Zecchetti
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @Albionshores

    Agreed.

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  15. @Zecchetti

    Was it the "Zionists" or 19 Arab Muslim men who rammed 2 jets into the WTC on 9/11 slaughtering
    over 2,400 innocents?

    Seems your self-hatred has turned outward.

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  16. @DerivativeRe
    Just because he's a Muslim doesn't mean that he agrees with the 9-11 attacks....so where you get 'self hate', inward or outward, I don't know.

    He has just said that he denounces war and conflict.
    Do you?

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  17. I think the funniest part of this is that it is ok to marry at one ONLY if sex is postponed.

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  18. @Albionshores

    He has an "Anti-Zionist" group.

    I didn't notice that there are any "Zionist Suicide Bombers" or that we are currently at war with any "Zionists," but rather we are fighting only Arab and Muslims nations or proxies.

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  19. @Orlando37

    Somehow, I don't think sex with a one year old is postponed. There is a difference b/t how Islam is written v how it is practiced.

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  20. @DerivativeRe

    I don't see how how the 9/11 attacks (which I totally condemn along with Iran who held a candle-lit vigil: http://www.mixx.com/photos/956380/candlelight_vigil_for_the_victims_of_9_11) has anything to do with this post. Trying to evade the spotlight again are we?

    Do you denounce war and conflict? I don't think you do if you're a fan of MEMRI - responsible for spreading hatred and animosity resulting in wars and conflict. Quite the fascist you are.

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    • Albionshores Albionshores
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @DerivativeRe
    So? Zionism does not equal Israel. Just as neo-con does not equal America. Many Israelis are anti-zionists....even more are anti neo-zionists.

    He is saying he denounces conflict and war. So he is saying he opposes the political agenda of zionism but denounces war at the same time. Nothing wrong or contradictory with that - it is his opinion. BUT HE DENOUNCES CONFLICT AND WAR!!!!

    It is you that is drawing false parallels with him and 9-11 because he is a Muslim....so where you get 'self hate', inward or outward, I don't know.

    Other than you were being intentionally inflammatory, just as you were with your last comment of:

    ►"I don't think sex with a one year old is postponed. There is a difference b/t how Islam is written v how it is practiced."

    So now you are arguing that Islam is practiced by having sex with a one year old. F***ING HELL DUDE.
    You want to be any more transparent with your hate speech?

    So before you go all persecutioner let's look at that plank shall we....
    Do you denounce war and conflict?

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    • Zecchetti Zecchetti
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @DerivativeRe

    I agree that Islam is often practised different to the way it's written. But I certainly don't see any Muslims doing what you've implied with your comment namely, having sex with a one year old girl.

    Your hatred is coming out. I sure hope all Zionists aren't as sick as you are.

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  23. @Zecchetti

    He even voted that story about the candle light vigil up...so its not like he can claim to be misinformed. He already knew of the Iranian and Muslim reform movements and now here he is drawing parallels with your peaceful Islam and the attacks of 9-11 whilst saying that he thinks Islam is practiced by having sex with a one year old.

    He's just outed himself and now he's trying to cause as much offense as possible.
    You're doing a great job of not allowing your posts to sink to the level of his.

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  24. @Albionshores

    :-) Cheers buddy

    • (0 Kudos received)
    • Albionshores Albionshores
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @Zecchetti
    No worries and since your membership of an anti-zionist community is being portrayed as something it is not I'll even take the time to post this link:

    http://www.mixx.com/users/zecchetti

    Zecchetti's description:
    "I consider myself to be a practicing Muslim. My aim in life is to counter the negative image being portrayed of Islam by educating myself in the teachings of the Qur'an, perfecting my character, and behaving well towards people. Want to know more? Just ask!"

    And the communities listed of which Derivative names but one....
    'Anti-war', 'auto-authority', 'anti-zionist' and 'comparative religion'

    Clearly you are not contradicting yourself. Whilst Derivative, by earlier voting up a submission about Muslim groups denouncing terrorist attacks and then attempting to draw parallels with you and 9-11 whilst saying, "I don't think sex with a one year old is postponed. There is a difference b/t how Islam is written v how it is practiced" clearly has.

    Clearly the submission, a Memri article, was posted to fulfill a racist agenda. A claim substantiated in thread by the level of the racist and bigoted rhetoric you and your faith has been subjected to by the submitter.

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  26. @ Zecchetti

    "Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism"
    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
    ". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
    "Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

    "Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

    "The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

    "How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

    This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

    "And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

    "The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

    "My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.

    Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

    From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76.
    Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

    All the Muslim lands are for Muslims. Zionism is the right of Jews to have and live in peace in their own homeland--Israel

    Au contraire, you are anti-Zionism which is anti-Israel which is anti-Jewish. You are the one full of hate. And yes
    one thing we can agree on is:

    I agree that Islam is often practised different to the way it's written"

    That's why Muslims are Suicide Bombers and Jews/Israelis/Zionists are not.

    A great portion of the Arab and Muslim nations and people are fanatical war-mongers. That's the facts.

    We are not at war with Zionism meaning Israel--but we are certainly at war with political Islam.

    • (0 Kudos received)
    • Albionshores Albionshores
    • added about 1 month ago (edited about 1 month ago)

    @DerivativeRe

    Clearly Anti-Zionism ≠ Anti-Semitism
    With saying otherwise is this another attempt of yours to label someone an anti-semite and play the race card?
    We've been here before - and often.

    It is no more easily dismissed than this:
    There are many 'Semites' or in this case Jewish people who are anti-zionist.
    Clickety-click. ►http://au.youtube.com/results?search_query=anti-zionist&search_type=&aq=f

    And Zionism is a complicated endeavour. I can't speak for Zecchetti but I imagine the Zionism he is opposed to is Neo-Zionism, a political movement in the same sense that neo-conservatism is. The two often move in the same circles.

    ►"Neo-Zionism emerged in the 1970s.[2] It is mainly constituted of settlers and members of the "national camp" in Israel. It is politically represented by the Mafdal and the Likud and other small parties such as Tehiyah, Tzomet and Moledet[2]
    Neo-Zionists consider that "secular Zionism", particularly the labor version, was too weak on nationalism and never understood the impossibility of Arabs and Jews to live together in peace. They claim that Arab attitude to Israel takes its root in their antisemitism and that it is a Zionist illusion to think living in peace with them is possible. They consider Arabs in Israel to be a fifth column and pose a demographic threat. From their point of view, the only solution to achieve peace is "deterrence and retaliation".[3]
    For Neo-Zionism, "the weakness of Israeli Nationalism derives from his alienation of Jewish sources and culture (...). Only a new national-religious and orthodox coalition [could] cure Zionism of this moral bankruptcy".[3] Neo-Zionists view the land of Israel as the natural and Biblically mandated home of the Jewish people and assert that the goal of Jewish statehood is not only about creating a safe refuge for Jews but also about the national-historic destiny of the people of Israel in the land of Israel.
    Neo-Zionism is promoted by members of the Kumah organization and journalists at Arutz Sheva for a Zionist stream based on what its adherents call authentic Jewish spiritual foundations.
    For Chan & al., "Neo-Zionism (...) is an exclusionary, nationalist, even racist, and antidemocratic political-cultural trend, striving to heighten the fence encasing Israeli identity.[2]◄

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Zionism
    I know wikipedia but it is ok, it includes citations and it is adequate in displaying the difference;)

    And you my friend...are too long in the tooth on Mixx and have too many of your own comments against you for you to be claiming post-Zionism. No....your comments are those of a neo-zionist. A miltiant, political movement.

    From the extract above:
    " exclusionary, nationalist, even racist, "
    "They claim that Arab attitude to Israel takes its root in their antisemitism and that it is a Zionist illusion to think living in peace with them is possible. "

    NOW CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT THEY'VE JUST DESCRIBED YOU TO A TEE.
    http://www.mixx.com/users/derivativere/comments?page=1

    Anti-zionism doesn't mean anti-semitic. (please note when neo-zionism came about....after Martin Luther King, the good doctor's, death.) The movement has moved on. The anti-zionist semites cover that one for us.

    That zionism comes in some many forms; post-zionism, secular-zionism, neo-zionism means it is not accurate to simply use it as a euphemism for Israel anymore as it often was prior to Israel being set up after the 2nd world war - but even then it was always a political movement not a nation. Now we must look at the contemporary political movement.

    It, neo-zionism, goes in the same kettle as neo-conservatism.
    They're pushing for war with Iran too.

    To be opposed to the neo-con agenda of the last 8 years does not make for an anti-American.
    Ditto for someone who opposes the similar militant behaviour of the neo-zionists in regards to Israel.
    In fact, I'd actually argue that to do so is to have their best interests at heart.

    People here have already denounced war and conflict.
    You, markedly, did not.

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  28. From the extract above:
    " exclusionary, nationalist, even racist, "
    "They claim that Arab attitude to Israel takes its root in their antisemitism and that it is a Zionist illusion to think living in peace with them is possible. "

    NOW CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT THEY'VE JUST DESCRIBED YOU TO A TEE.

    ......AND MEMRI! - See submission and link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OX16mQjKhw

    • (0 Kudos received)

  29. You should stick with your submissions from al-Jazeera--fit's you to a tee.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  30. @DerivativeRe

    IS THAT IT?
    You are told that the article is compiled by a militant, nationalist outfit and is being used by white supremists, that Zionism does not equal Israel but has evolved from a political movement into Neo-Zionism, a militant racist and nationalistic that denegrates Arabs just like the Nazis did with Jewish people. That your calls of antisemitism AGAIN are completely unfounded and that your argument is rooted in extremism and racism......

    ......and the only defense or counter argument you offer IS THAT? An ad-hominem.
    WHOOSH.

    Ok then, I don't have to but I'll address it. It is true I have in my time submitted an Al-Jazeera article. Two in fact. You'd have to go back a bit mind. 5 months in fact. In my defense it was the good Al-Jazeera, you know the one that is broadcast from Washington and London. And the stories...one was about AFRICOM in AFRICA. The other was about a new gas field being found off the coast of Iran. That's it. 5 months ago...I submitted an Arabic News Service which is quite clear about what it is....an Arabic News Service.

    But then again why shouldn't I. I mean look at some of the other sources I used in that period:

    The Guardian
    The Economist
    Reuters
    The BBC
    The Independent
    Haaretz
    The Jerusalem Post
    The Times
    The Sun
    TheWashington Post
    Order-Order
    The Financial Times
    The Daily Mail
    Fox News
    CS Monitor
    UKIP
    JustForeignPolicy.org
    Breitbart
    Amnesty International
    The Press Democrat
    B’Tselem
    The I.A.E.A.
    The Telegraph
    IPS News
    Esquire
    News Europe
    BraveNewFilms
    The Seattle News
    YellowCakeWalk
    KBR.com
    Truthout.org
    ABC News
    Ynet
    PBS
    CNN
    Giyus
    Time Magazine
    PublicIntegrity.org
    The Associated Press
    The United Nations
    Bloomberg
    Xinhuanet
    Forbes
    Monsters and Critics
    Sify Business
    The American Academy of Religion
    United Liberty
    The New York Times

    I think you're getting confused about the two Al-Jazeeras. Did you know there were two or did bigotry blind you again??? I used the English one on both occasions that is broadcast from several locations. You see if I use Israeli press, European Press, Chinese Press, American press and Internationals then why wouldn't I use a source which originated in the Middle Eastern too even if it is being run by well respected Western journalists and broadcasters? In fact it'd prejudice that would stop me....especially when you consider:

    Veteran broadcaster Sir David Frost, former BBC and CNN anchorman Riz Khan and Captain josh Rushing, who was the former press officer of the United Staes Central Command during the 2003 Invasion of Iraq all work for Al-Jazeera English. Are they anti-west? The list goes on:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_English#Recruitment

    It is your bigotry that has led you to not look into the facts again!
    If anything I should have used the source more.....it does fit me to a tee, you're right. A citizen of the world.

    From the extract above:
    " exclusionary, nationalist, even racist.......They claim that Arab attitude to Israel takes its root in their antisemitism and that it is a Zionist illusion to think living in peace with them is possible. "

    And I said, correct me if I'm wrong but they've just describe you to a tee.

    Now....I denounce war and promote libertarian individualism and equality as opposed to authoritarianism. My sources come from around the world, from the left and the right (see list).
    I am the antithesis of exclusionary, nationalistic and racist. I am inclusive, principled and libertarian. The reason why you argue with me is because you only see things from your perspective. Widen your horizons and learn to see things from the perspective of others.

    When you learn to do that you too will denounce war as others did previously.
    Were you, markedly, previously did not.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  31. Remember even the Nazis were brainwashed into thinking that they were right.

    So which, if either of us, or both, are brainwashed?
    The thing is this, my actions cannot be described as extremist or nationalistic, racist or militant. Your comments clearly have been. You even decided to not contend the fact when it was pointed out to you. Look at the historical company you are keeping.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  32. Remember that Saudi Arabia is "our rogue", a dictatorship (a medieval monarchy) under the guard of US forces due to its massive oil reserves. That's one of the reasons why the US invaded Afghanistan, because 16 of 17 of the 911 terrorists where from Saudi Arabia they needed to attack another country to at least appear as doing something.

    DerivateRe attempts to discredit Islam fall short as long as all Islamic nations are thrown together.

    • (0 Kudos received)
    • JPress JPress
    • added about 1 month ago

    How is DerivateRe discrediting islam ? He merely posted a link for G-d's sake, he did not write it, nor created the news. He just posted the link. This is merely a place to exchange links and opinions not force your own, something that Albionshores and Zachetti trying to do for a quite some time. Chill out guys.

    • (0 Kudos received)

  34. @JPress

    He's not discredited. He was trying to. As was the Memri article and those that hosted it onto LiveLeak.
    First of all the nature of the Memri submission was contested and those supporting it on LiveLeak.

    Then DerivativeRe said,

    "Somehow, I don't think sex with a one year old is postponed. There is a difference b/t how Islam is written v how it is practiced."

    Which is to say he was suggesting that practicing Muslims slept with one year olds.

    Are you ok with that slur Mr Jihad Press or do you think DerivativeRe overstepped the line a tad?

    • (0 Kudos received)
  35. Mixx A Mixx administrator removed this comment about 1 month ago.

  36. @DerivativeRe
    That is an outright lie.

    'Neo-zionism' is a political movement as is neo-conservatism. Neither are indicative of a state or a people.
    Do I state that neo-zionism, neo-conservatism and fascism are all nationalistic forms of authoritarian rule....absolutely. That is not to say that America or Israel, Americans or Israelis are compounded in that guilt.

    You're being pretty bold for a weekend.

    • (0 Kudos received)

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