ATTENTION MIXXERS - These people need our help!!! Couple brutally attacked in Ecuador

msnbc.msn.com — It was to be the trip of a lifetime — a full year in Central America and Ecuador — and Britt Leis and his fiancée, Lia Koehn, had sold their belongings to finance it. It ended less than two months after it began in a vicious and unprovoked attack...

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Comments (46)

- cGt2099
Also - http://mixxingbowl.com/forums/index.php/topic,913.0.html
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- cGt2099
Unfortunately they don't have any health insurance and very little cash, so a couple of charities have popped up.

http://www.helpbrittandlia.com/
http://www.studio3design.com/
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- cGt2099
Please vote this up, and share with your followers!
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- TunisianGuy
VETO
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1. - Cocreator
  @TunisianGuy
  ???
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2. - cGt2099
  @TunisianGuy
  
  ????
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3. - alapoet
  @TunisianGuy
  
  ?????
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4. - curtisblow
  @TunisianGuy
  ??????
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- Cocreator
Almost one out of four Americans traveling abroad are victims of crime? In America it is our right to carry a firearm to protect ourselves.Maybe it is time to demand our rights overseas. This couple were in a country or an area known for armed and violent men. In the end we are responsible for our own protection. I wish I was reading a story about how this attack was ended by this couple fighting back. Thank you so much cGT2099 for posting this story to shine some light on this atrocious statistic, and to warm other travelers about the peril they are in overseas. I say arm yourself and always be wary. When it comes to the medical bills, I think the ministry of tourism in this country should cough up the entire amount plus a healthy addition of cash to pay for pain and suffering. Americans should boycott this country until they make it right.
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1. - bkocik
  @Cocreator
  
  "Americans should boycott this country until they make it right."
  
  Hear hear! Let's impose a tariff on the violent gang members we import from them.
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2. - jdow
  @Cocreator
  Americans carrying weapons in other countries would just be asking for trouble.
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3. - lisa25915
  @Cocreator - Its terrible to hear that you wear firearms to protect yourself in USA. Protecting ourselves with weapons was something we did in Scandinavia when Vikings ruled the area. Traveling to 3 world countries is risky and one should be aware of it up front. Guess US Government like most other Governments issues travel warnings about countries they consider dangerous to travel to, could not find the US site, but the Canadian is at: http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=78000
  
  There are numerous warnings issued about assault, crime and more. I am a risk taker myself but always try to judge risks and consequences up front, and you are not a coward if you decide to chicken out because you love life. I am sorry to say that I think this couple did a poor judgment up front, they travel to a risky area with no medical insurance and I understand its tough to face the consequence.
  
  I do hope the couple make it safely home to their families and the rest of us learn from this tragic story.
  
  My best wishes for a healthy recovery and safe trip home to Britt and Lia
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4. - Cocreator
  @lisa25915
  You say nobody protects themselves in Scandinavia? I'm not sure that I would put that out on the world wide web. lol And I probably shouldn't say this on web either not enough Americans do anymore either, that's why we have so many victims. While it IS still our right they have most souls convinced there is something wrong with it. And then act amazed at the level of violent victimization. Now about them Vikings was that before you became socialists? Just kidding. Don't, whatever you do, abuse yourself of the idea that I speak for all Americans. I much nearer to the lunatic fringe than the mainstream. And I know that there are dangerous places all over the world and yes I bet even in your country. Those are the places you strap one on. (a pistol that is) I've been robbed at gunpoint. It's not very fun. And trust me there's nothing wrong with being prepared.
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5. - lisa25915
  @Cocreator - I’m glad you responded to my comment, where I made a point just as ridicules as yours:
  
  .. Maybe it is time to demand our rights overseas..
  
  What is your master plan?... stuffing the suit case full of guns and go on vacation? … bring an army along maybe?...
  
  Off course there is crime in Scandinavia, and there are places wouldn’t set foot because I would be assaulted, raped, robbed or killed. And there are countries in the world I wouldn’t go for the same reasons, especially countries with a red light saying: “Avoid all travel”. Conclusion is pretty obvious; don’t go there.
  
  Using this tragic assault as an excuse to bring guns and start firing makes no sense. This assault could have happened to anyone of us being at the wrong place at the right time – you or me. I could strap one on (God forbid, I hate guns) as you say, but in this neighbourhood I would most likely be killed anyway.
  
  Why are you so afraid of letting the world know that there are peaceful places on earth?.. Americans are welcome in Scandinavia. Do you want to know why?.. One example, after the Second World War US government helped Norway recover from the war with something called the Marshall help. Thanks to this Norway managed to recover quickly and this is a part of our history that every Norwegian learns about in school. US citizens are most welcome to Norway, you helped us in a difficult time, we thank you for that and treat you friendly.
  
  I know there are countries that don’t feel the same whether you agree or disagree about your governments’ politics and politics is a different issue we can discuss another time.
  
  Cocreator you are welcome to visit my country whenever you like as long as you don’t bring guns or a hostile attitude. You can feel safe, relaxed and enjoy a peaceful vacation.
  
  In case you ignore my advice I will send a couple of heavily armed Vikings to meet you at the airport :o)
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6. - jdow
  @lisa25915
  Michael Moore did a great clip about Norway as a special feature on the Sicko DVD.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L6-0WRfSA
  
  The Norwegian prison he mentions is a mind-blowing idea for Americans.
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7. - Cocreator
  @lisa25915
  I'm flattered by your invitation. My roots trace back through Ireland to the vikings so those escorts would be a welcome sight. As for letting anyone know what one is doing or not doing to protect themselves I would just as soon let the criminals keep guessing. I think it is a right AND a duty to protect yourself and your loved ones for the very reason that when one becomes a victim they are a drag on the rest of society and that's not fair or good for everyone else. A stitch in time really does save nine and being prepared usually means that incidents like this are avoided. Guns are only bad in a bad man's hands so the gun isn't the problem the man is. I remember a bumper sticker from when I was a young-en that said,"If you outlaw guns , only outlaws will have guns." That's not a very reassuring point. This couple didn't even need a gun, my father stop an assault at a gas station once with nothing more than a sharp piece of driftwood he happened to have on the backseat floor of his car, once it was firmly inserted in the attackers gut he collapsed on the ground and my father got away. That was gang of large young men. One can do extensive damage to multiple assailants with something I know is available in Ecuador, we here in the Midwest call it a corn knife, known the world over as a machete'. A few good hard swings and them knives they were stabbed with would be lying on the ground along with the attackers hands-arms. I realize they are young, (though him- not really) in love, and probably focused on each other instead of their surroundings. Criminals always look to attack by surprise and yes if they get the drop on you all the protection in the world can't prevent an attack but fighting back can always be done. If a good man is going to die by being attacked he may as well take the attacker(s) out with him.
  I'm not afraid of letting the world know there are safe places to visit. Here in Iowa is probably one of the safest places on earth. But even if there are no people there are always dangerous animals. We have mountain lions and packs of coyotes. Even badgers can be nasty if you happen upon one in the wrong mood.
  I'm not using this tragedy as an excuse to bring guns and start firing. If a good man wants to protect his own with ANY device it should be encouraged if for no other reason than an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Plus it is not nice to burden others for your shortcomings or expect others to protect you. While they are protecting you they are making themselves vulnerable. And even though Iowa may be safe if you come to visit please bring common sense and by all means be able to protect yourself. But if you still find trouble we will help you out. Bad knows no borders.
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8. - lisa25915
  @jdow - Thank you jdow, its the first time I've seen this clip. We are a bit spoiled I guess, Norway is rich on energy (oil, gas, water power) and fishery. As said in the film much of the surplus money are invested in enterprises all over the world, I'm not sure how much it is now but its a decent pile of money.
  
  Bastoy (Bastøy) prison is visited by officials from all over the world because few believe its possible to run a prison this way.
  
  Norway's biggest problem is that we don't make enough kids, thats why pregnancy is favored with one year leave. Generations growing up are too small to finance future welfare, and investments mentioned above is meant to finance this.
  
  Its correct that the police are mostly not armed on regular patrols. So when I visit other countries and see police armed with pistols and rifles I'm scared stiff, never get used to that.
  
  Norway can be summed up like this: Make love not war :o)
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9. - jdow
  @lisa25915
  I'd like to travel in Scandinavia, but it's very expensive for Americans and the Schengen Visa is very short.
  
  I just looked up that prison:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast%C3%B8y_Prison
  Very interesting concept...
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10. - lisa25915
  @jdow - yes, unfortunately Scandinavia is expensive. I am not so familiar with the schengen visa but Europeans can stay and work for three months. Many work for one month or so to fund their travel. If you speak English and are not too picky about what you do its pretty easy to get a job especially during summertime. Not sure if US citizens or countries outside Europe can do this.
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11. - lisa25915
  @Cocreator - My invitation stands based upon what I said in the comment above.
  
  First of all guns are bad whoever holds it, because a gun don’t just take a humans life it creates hate, bitterness and revenge. Secondly using a gun to solve problems is stepping backwards in time.
  
  We see it the news every day, the misery people live threw in warzones because leaders decide to solve disagreements with guns. We see it Europe, Middle East and many other countries. To end a war is difficult and heal the mental wounds, bitterness and hate takes generations. For instance, in Norway the wounds of the Second World War are still there 67 years after it ended. I am sure the wounds of the 9/11 tragedy in USA will take generations to heal as well. I remember when President Bush said “we will hunt them down” I said yes, hunt them down and punish them - even I said that, a person you can describe as a peaceful, sentimental jerk.
  
  I was assaulted once in a Shopping Mall visiting a European country, yes in a Shopping Mall, in the escalator to be precise. Two guys stood in front of me and one stood behind, at the top of the escalator the two in front blocked me, the guy behind grabbed and pushed me to the floor. They stole my purse and ran off. It happened so fast I didn’t have time to react. My feelings were hurt and I was mad as hell, but alive with no injuries. Honestly, if I had a gun and was capable of using it there was no time to do so.
  
  My point is its not mine or yours job to handle the criminals unless you are a police officer. I don’t want to enter a political discussion with you, but what is needed is more police in the streets, demand it. If I were openly attacked by a gang of criminals I would turn around and run like crazy. Maybe I could hurt one or two of them fighting back but in the end they would get me.
  
  You say Iowa is one of the safest places on earth, why do you need a gun for protection then? It’s impossible to be prepared for everything at anytime. As you say bad knows no borders, unfortunately you are right about that. Suddenly you are a victim for crime because it’s a reality of life. However we must fight to prevent this by demanding politicians to provide the resources needed to fight this.
  
  U2 once wrote a song called “Sunday bloody Sunday” about the tragic event in 1972 were 26 civil rights protesters were killed by the British Army in Derry, Northern Ireland. Don’t wish to rip up in things just mention that piece in Ireland was not solved with guns.
  
  Bet you and I could debate to the end of the day and never agree, although I appreciate to hear your points of view.
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- Albionshores
WTF x4 COMBO!!!

WTF#1- The attack itself.

WTF#2 - I would want/demand that if this were to happen in my own country that we as a nation would not ask for a penny and provide everything that happened to be needed. I wanna hear - 'If you happen to get screwed over on these shores - you're a guest, we got yer back, you're covered'.

WTF#3 - If WTF#2 doesn't apply then WTF whatever country that they come from. No man left behind in the army....same should apply out of war. I want to hear "what ever you do, wherever you go you're still one of our own. You get in the shit, we've got yer back". You pay your taxes to one country the very least you deserve is to know at least one country is on your side when the chips are down.

WTF#4 - Tunisian Guy??????
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1. - Cocreator
  @Albionshores
  Are you talking a Rainbow Six sort of fast action force that can hop a super sonic and come to the rescue of hapless victims everywhere?
  Instead of Black Hawk Down this call to arms would have been Young Man Down.
  Just teasing:)
  Yeah, you would think the American Consulate would have done something. Although Americans are individualists they have lately fallen to the current memes of group think.
  I still think the host country would be liable.
  Also if it was a gang of men you can probably bet the gang was drug and/or rebel related. That would be a good place to start asking questions.
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- cigarjack
I got lost about half way through the comments.
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- TunisianGuy
@Cocreator, @cGt2099, @alapoet, @curtisblow & @Albionshores
What????????

Here are some issues with this:

1. Why should we (social news members) privilege this couple over the long list of American citizens who can't afford decent medical care. Two reasons come to my mind: a) They can afford a digital camera b) they can make a blog post. Understand that I have nothing against them,But this is not fair for the rest.

2. People all over the world are dying every second. Not because they don't have medical insurance, because they have nothing. (Post something about that, you'll see if it gets to the breaking news section). Not fair again.

3. This is not the kind of publicity I wanna make to third world countries. I'm sorry but The guys who tried to kill this man were probably dying themselves (drugs, alcohol...) That's another hole issue. And we, the "rich countries", are part of the problem. You're generally aware of that when you can afford a year long trip.
.
.
.

No empathy here, I agree. But this is the opinion of someone who traveled long enough in countries where people don't know what "medical care" means.

This is very bad publicity to one of those countries
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1. - cGt2099
  @TunisianGuy
  
  Uh, dude
  The air lift back to the USA cost them $55,000 before any state-side medical expenses
  
  Can you afford $55,000 + in medical expenses even though you own a camera?
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2. - Albionshores
  @TunisianGuy
  1. "Why should we privilege this couple"....WE SHOULDN'T SHOW PRIVELEGE.....I'd argue that ANY human should be deserved the same way. Regardless of where or who humanity, I'd argue, - if a human gets stabbed on the beach then humans regardless of race, nationality or standing should help.
  
  2. And how does one wrong mean we should ignore all the others OR ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE DESENSITIZED TO IT???? Do wrongs happen in the world - damn right. Should we allow two wrongs to mean that we dismiss a third? No.....an argument of humanity again.
  
  3. Stuggling yourself because of circumstance does not justify stabbing another out of frustration. It is called civilization. Something that is lacking in how these people were treated, have been treated since and something you are lacking in not understanding or empathising.
  
  .....it's called humanity!
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3. - Cocreator
  @TunisianGuy
  While I'm glad your privileged enough to have traveled extensively in countries with out health care I really see no reason that would value your opinion above others. I'm not saying you don't make a few points but being a victim of violent crime is a little different than going to the emergency room so you don't have to pay a doctor. I don't want to get all tied up debating about how other countries chose to spend their money. That is and should be their business. But if someone comes to my property and I agree to let them in I feel that I would be responsible for their well being while they were staying. Anything else would make me a lessor host. I would much rather see this taken care of by the host country for THEIR sake. Haven't they ever heard of P.R.? Bad press like this will only hurt their tourist industry. I think the bad publicity is theirs and theirs alone.
  However I DO think we are all responsible for our own protection and I think this is a god given right (to defend yourself in any way necessary) and duty. I think it is wonderfull that so many have a knee jerk reaction to help, and that so many Mixxers do reassures me that this is THE place to be on the internet. That said I'm saddened to see I'm the only one advocating that they needed to protect themselves-not by something as cheezy as buying evacuation insurance (though that's a good idea for other reasons) but by getting a defensive weapon.
  Thanks, Tunisian Guy, for answering all the ?????? it took a pair to do that.
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4. - Wordherd
  @Cocreator
  
  How would a similar provision play in the United States? Would the electorate be in favor of increased taxes to pay for the healthcare of foreign tourists in our country if they are attacked by one of our citizens?
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5. - Cocreator
  @Wordherd
  OK, a question or two.
  Question one- Are one out of four foreign tourists on American soil victims of crime?
  Question two-Are there no places in America to purchase defensive weapons?
  This was a couple attacked by a gang of men-
  When that happened in New Orleans at the Superdome after Katrina I think ALL Americans felt responsible and yes I think to let them fend for themselves would be (was) a chickenshit thing to do. Are you saying that they weren't offered medical assistance? I'm only asking because I don't know.
  So in short yes I think if we host a foreign tourist and we are unable to either protect them or provide them with the means to protect themselves (through the sale of firearms which we ALL know are readily available here) then yes by all means those victims should be taken care of as best we can.
  However I think a more American solution would be a fund paid into by all businesses that make money from tourists to be used to compensate those who we've lured into our lair. It makes good moral sense as well as economic sense in a public relations sort of way. Not to mention it is an idea that any conscientious country's tourist industry should be willing to implement.
  I am frankly surprised it hasn't already been adopted.
  Maybe it is not a big problem here.
  But taxes, no.
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6. - Albionshores
  @Wordherd
  Please understand this. There is no reason why the US with the amount it pays, and with the number of taxes it has, why it should not be able to do this AND provide healthcare for every citizen AND still have change left over and all this AFTER a significant tax cut.
  
  I'm neither delusional or a magician. Other countries achieve it and then some; no other country in the world pays as much or receives as little for the amount they pay per head for healthcare - none.
  
  You don't have to pay more to get more. You just have to demand a higher level of service and competence from those you elect.
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7. - Wordherd
  @Cocreator
  
  Actually, you are talking about taxes. You suggest a tax on the tourism industry. That's the only way a fund like you suggest will be set up. After all, what you're suggesting is that the tourism industry is somehow responsible for tourists' safety. There is no such legal duty upon the industry and there is no chance they'd voluntarily pony up anything. So, to create such a fund, a tax is required.
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8. - Wordherd
  @Albionshores
  
  I think we had a communication breakdown. I am completely in favor of universal health care.
  
  I was speaking in regard to existing conditions. Under existing conditions I don't think any nation has standing to require a foreign country to pay for the medical expenses of tourists.
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9. - Wordherd
  Looking back over the above comments I think I got messed up as to who I was responding to. Gads! Sorry.
  - (0 Kudos received)
10. - jdow
  @Cocreator
  This happens to foreign tourists in the US also. Ask some Germans whether they think the US is safe.
  
  The 24% figure from the article probably includes theft from hotel rooms, taxi ripoffs, and other minor crimes. Much of the world is safer to travel in than the US.
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11. - Albionshores
  @Wordherd
  "I think we had a communication breakdown. I am completely in favor of universal health care."
  
  Cool dude....so am I as it goes :)
  
  "I was speaking in regard to existing conditions. Under existing conditions I don't think any nation has standing to require a foreign country to pay for the medical expenses of tourists."
  
  Healthcare is now known as a fundamental right in the EU (excluding Poland and the UK) since the signing of the Lisbon treaty. However I've personally had American friends in the UK who had no insurance, one had an accident that needed medical assistance (burns). It doesn't even crop up as a question in the UK.....you get the healthcare you need and the individual is never presented with a bill (the American friend was pretty bowled over by it).
  
  I would never advocate another country having to foot a bill - but that many choose to is testimony to them. What I was saying is that I would want any visitor to my country to know that we the host nation cover the costs for any such emergency. I was also saying that if myself as a visitor to another country I do not receive the same treatment that my country provides to others....then I'd expect my own country to not leave me in the lurch if I need help getting back.
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12. - Cocreator
  @Wordherd
  Here in America when they do it to farmers it is called a Check Off or it could be set up and run like an insurance scheme but ,yeah, a rose by any other name and all.
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13. - Cocreator
  @jdow
  I would have hoped that the host state or city made it right with these German victims of US crime. If it happened in one of the small towns I live near I'm sure donations would pour in no matter where the victim was from. And like I said somewhere else I've stared down the barrel of a gun before. I was just robbed then but the memory is like it happened today. I don't know if robbery is a minor crime or not but it seemed pretty major to me at the time. But you have a point on them not all being violent.
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14. - jdow
  @Cocreator
  I was talking about South Florida in the '90s:
  http://snurl.com/4pnn8
  I don't know if the victims were compensated by the government, but there were a lot of incidents.
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- NEWSUNSEO
Yeah it would be cool if Ecuador stepped up and paid for the bills. It's unfortunate how health care is in the US, it should be free for all. Though I think it is honorable of those who want to help this couple get out of this situation, at least financially.
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1. - Cocreator
  @NEWSUNSEO
  Don't you mean it should be paid for by all?
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- TheSUBWAY
Crazy how some people will so willingly attack / kill others they don't even know.
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- shicks
I have been watching this story very closely as the couple is from my hometown in Oregon. I am praying for recovery and safe return. Local banks have set up special funds at which people can donate to help with the extraordinary expenses. What a tragedy!
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- MacBookForMe
You know what I have found very funny in similar cases? US has the best army and the best rapid response units in the entire planet. Nobody could come even close to their equipment and skills, yet when they need to protect an American citizen abroad they are nowhere to find!!! That is so very sad!
Bush and US upper class are using US army and intelligence powers only for their private Oil Power interests.
We should do all in our power to help these poor people in Ecuador!
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- Cocreator
@Lisa25915
Reading over my last response I can see I must become a better editor.
Love that U2 song and I think that's what Sabbath Bloody Sabbath by Black Sabbath was alluding to. Funny how the army was there because of the violence and in the role of uber-policeman. (I may have not used that uber word right I was trying to Nazify them.) I remember when we felt the same way about needing more police. Now we are moving toward a police state and I wonder if the whole crime wave wasn't somehow orchestrated. At the least it was used to sell us a police state. Guns, knives, bayonets,billy clubs, sharp sticks, even machetes are merely tools. A machete can be used to weed crops or in the wrong hands at the wrong times a machete can be used to fill the rivers with the bodies of a rival tribe.(Rwanda I believe) The same fist that kneads the bread can be used to punch someones lights out. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I think we both want safety in an unsafe world, we use different approaches is all. I'm not going to try to turn you into a pistol packing momma I'm just used to looking to myself for solutions to things that vex me. And more complex solutions tend to drain resources and reduce efficiency. That feeling you get when you see an armed Policeman is the same feeling the criminals have and that's the point. The point isn't to start shooting the idea is deterrence.
Thanx for the conversation, it seems to be winding down but I've enjoyed it.

PS to others,
I was astounded at first read to see that 24% figure on crime. My own WTF if you will. This tragedy shouldn't probably be used to lobby for guns rights and to that extent I apologize. But maybe it shouldn't have been used to lobby for government run health care either.
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1. - lisa25915
  @Cocreator - Lets agree on disagreeing - you never give up do you?...
  Enjoyed discussing with you too because your point of view is so opposite of mine. Don't go anywhere we have alot to talk about .o)
  
  Take care
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- exMixxer
Thank gosh the Americans weren't in Islamic lands they
wouldn't have their heads left.
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