Texas authorities were right to bust-up polygamist cult view story

1. • SallyD

   So did these children say they were raped?

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2. • allyoh

   I guess I have to disagree. But how I disagree is that an investigation should have been done. The authorities in Texas went in there after an anonymous phone call that turned out to be bogus.

   I may not agree with their lifestyle, but what ever happened to investigative work?

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3. • SallyD

   Please, around here you're guilty till proven innocent. Just make the accusations sound scary enough to the public and everyone falls for it.

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4. • DRIE

   They are conditioning you for the police state.

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5. • FatLester

   @SallyD

   Check out the related story. Unfortunately, it now appears that both the boys and the girls were being raped.

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6. • FatLester

   @DRIE

   That was my initial reaction to all this until Idid some research into what was going on at that compound. I hate the fact that the state had to step in and separate children from their parents. At the same time, after learning of the systematic abuse these children were being subjected to on a regular basis, it became clear to me that if I had to make the decision of whether or not to raid the compound, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I were responsible for the decision to allow this cult to continue on with its ritual abuses of brainwashed children.

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7. • FatLester

   @allyoh

   That phone call was absolutely not bogus. The girl's husband was found, and they supposedly did recover evidence supporting the claims made by the girl during the phone call. Whoever placed the call had an intricate knowledge of the compound and gave the name of a real teenage girl who is really married to a real 50-year old man according to the 'church'. The fact that she hasn't been located does not mean the call was bogus. My suspicion is that she was either harmed, killed or locked away somewhere deep in the elaborate underground tunnel system underground at the compound.

   The person who placed the call had too much information to have not been an insider, and the claims that she allegedly made have been substantiated by the evidence obtained in the raid. There absolutely were young girls being routinely assigned to old men's harems and being knocked up by these pedophiles that are old enough to be their grandfathers.

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8. • FatLester

   @SallyD

   Just look at the evidence.

   From a law-enforcement standpoint, when the possibility exists that children are being sexually abused, the law has to let the courts decide guilt or innocence. That means the law has to take action, and that is the thing I try to defend in this editorial.

   I can't get over how many people are so ready to jump to the defense of people who are being accused of when there is so much evidence supporting the accusations.

   Please take a look at the related story (found next to the 'comments' button above). It appears the girls may not have been the only ones being raped.

   This is a huge development, in that it provides yet another motive for the sect to kill their male offspring. Have you noticed that almost 4 in every 5 of the children rescued from the cult were girls? What happened to the boys. This breaking story suggests the other 300 or so boys that can be assumed to have been born to members of the cult were either killed or exiled from the compound as adolescents.

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9. • SallyD

   @FatLester I stand by what I said, after all it is my opinion. The law will do what it wants no matter what I think but I do have to say that CPS is government abuse and intrusion on people's personal lives. I won't believe they were being abused until I actually see some convincing evidence, not assumptions.

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10. • FatLester

    @SallyD

    Fair enough, I respect your views. In fact, I can relate to them better than you might have guessed based on what I have written on the subject.

    As I mentioned, my initial reaction was much along the same lines as your own, as well as DRIE's. I am a libertarian at heart, and I would never take the position I have chosen on this issue unless I thought I had seen considerable evidence that the cops were justified. I believe I have seen that evidence. You may not have found the same evidence as convincing as I did, and I respect that because I am quite the cynic when it comes to government exercises of power over the citizenry.

    I fully understand your position, and in truth I can't fault you for it. That doesn't mean I won't argue with you, but discourse certainly does not translate into disrespect or condescension in any way, shape, manner or form. I was adamantly opposed to the Waco invasion. I would have been just as opposed to this raid (it hardly constitutes an "invasion"), were it not for the fact that I both think as well as feel deep-down that the allegations levied against this group of religious fanatics were true and possibly a lot worse than what we've heard.

    For me, until they can produce the 300 or so missing boys, produce DNA tests that prove they weren't raping young girls and prove that they weren't in-breeding (there was clearly a LOT of incest going on there), the children should remain in the custody of someone unaffiliated with the compound. One look at those women is proof enough that their family tree isn't branching out as much as is required by law in most states. If you're familiar with the physical defects associated with incestuous mating, it would be hard not to concede that more genetic-diversity was desperately needed inside the walls of the commune.

    Can we at least agree that IF the courts find some or all of these people guilty, they should be punished the same as any other incestuous child molesters?

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11. • SallyD

    @fatlester

    "I would have been just as opposed to this raid (it hardly constitutes an "invasion"), were it not for the fact that I both think as well as feel deep-down that the allegations levied against this group of religious fanatics were true and possibly a lot worse than what we've heard."

    You're on the side of the law. But the law isn't always right. I can't blame you for what you think/feel.
    Like I said before, those people do not come off as miserable, abused sex slaves to me. And what personally shocks and dismays me is that the US government interferes so much with people's personal lives and has ruined so many families because of wrongful accusations.

    "For me, until they can produce the 300 or so missing boys, produce DNA tests that prove they weren't raping young girls and prove that they weren't in-breeding (there was clearly a LOT of incest going on there), the children should remain in the custody of someone unaffiliated with the compound."

    Their lifestyle is so different from ours, I am absolutely sure that being in foster care and being forced to go to regular schools will traumatize them for life.

    "One look at those women is proof enough that their family tree isn't branching out as much as is required by law in most states. If you're familiar with the physical defects associated with incestuous mating, it would be hard not to concede that more genetic-diversity was desperately needed inside the walls of the commune."

    No proof here. You obviously feel that this cult needed government intervention, that it needed our help and I can't blame you for wanting to help, right?

    "Can we at least agree that IF the courts find some or all of these people guilty, they should be punished the same as any other incestuous child molesters?"

    It depends on the quality of evidence presented. I guess my question for you would be what if they were to be found innocent? Do you know how LONG it will take for them to get their kids back? Years. They were forced to be disconnected from family and there is no pain greater than that especially since I personally believe that they were not abused.

    Lester, I think that we have to agree to disagree.

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12. • FatLester

    @SallyD

    "Warren Jeffs, the sect's leader who is revered as a prophet, is in prison for a Utah conviction of being an accomplice to rape in arranging a marriage of a 14-year-old follower to her 19-year-old cousin."

    http://www.mixx.com/stories/250570/texas_officials_investigating_possible_abuses_to_boys_at_polygamist_compound

    The congregation deified this guy. They thought he was the precursor to the 2nd coming, if not the return of the savior himself. That much isn't debatable. I can't fathom how people who at least had the option not to be brainwashed (i.e. outsiders) can still give this guy and his incestuous sex cult the benefit of the doubt.

    Waco was one thing. This situation is no way comparable to Janet Reno's bloody invasion of the Branch Davidian compound in the 1990's.

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13. • SallyD

    "I can't fathom how people who at least had the option not to be brainwashed (i.e. outsiders) can still give this guy and his incestuous sex cult the benefit of the doubt."

    Because there is no proof of ANYTHING, FatLester. Nothing but assumptions and speculations are written about this with NO EVIDENCE at all. Anyways, if and when this mess is cleared up I'll be available for more comments on the subject. I'm not taking back my words until I see solid proof.

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14. • FatLester

    @SallyD

    Fair enough. I respect your collectedness and cool-head in all this. I wouldn't make for a very good judge or president (of a country - I do think I make a good company president) because I am quick to reach conclusions in situations where inaction is sometimes the better approach. I'm not asking you to retract any of your statements.

    For what it's worth, I've had a smile on my face while I typed away at the many comments exchanged on the matter. There's absolutely no animosity on my side --- quite the opposite, in fact. I must say, you earned quite a lot of my respect today by refusing to give an inch. I truly admire your confidence in standing up to my criticisms and challenges. I thoroughly enjoyed the exchange this afternoon, and I hope it is but the first of many.

    Buenas Tardes

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15. • Dubz4sho

    intense... LOI

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16. • allyoh

    @FatLester

    Do you know what happened with the woman from Colorado who's number was linked to the anonymous call?

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17. • FatLester

    @allyoh

    I saw the write-up on it. I don't really find it relevant, but the explanation of why would take too long to make it worth going into at this point.

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18. • FatLester

    @Dubz4sho

    Indeed....

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